Closed Oddbins@Canonbury, London – soon to reopen as an ExCellar branch
It has now been confirmed that Simon Baile has bought five shops from Deloitte, the administrators of Oddbins. The sites are: Canonbury, East Sheen, Farringdon Street, Surbiton and Summertown, Oxford. Simon Baile told me that the new stores will trade as ExCellar, whose existing stores comprise Ashtead, Claygate, Fulham Road and Paris.
"Our first task is to get the shops, which have now been shut for a few weeks, trading again, to get a team together and get energy back into the stores. We intend to continue to do what we do best: to offer interesting wines from small independent growers." Asked whether they would need a new wine buyer, Baile replied: "No as we already have plenty of experience and intelligence at ExCellar Ltd."
Asked what level of investment would be required to restock and open the shops, Baile declined to discuss the company's internal finances.
Undoubtedly expanding the four-store ExCellar chain to nine shops – there were two when the Bail and Young Oddbins adventure began in August 2008 – will present a challenge with a need for investment. Initial investment to allow restocking of the shops. Although Baile's long term aim is to rely on selling 'interesting wines from small independent growers' sourcing these wine will take time. It also assumes that producers will be happy to supply again considering the Oddbins debacle.
To restock the newly acquired shops quickly is likely to mean relying at least in part on stock held in the UK and it will be interesting to see what terms suppliers will want and feel able to demand.
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See also news story on decanter.com
52 comments:
"No as we already have plenty of experience and intelligence at ExCellar Ltd.
What a joke, does this man have no shame. Does he think he is teflon coated. His Ego is reponsible for so much hurt and ruined so many lives. I hope he doesn't wreck anymore lives...but thats just Simon being Simon...
An edited comment from anon:
I would have thought that his first task was to win back some sort of credibility amongst suppliers and any staff willing to work for him.
I gather that he bought all the stock that remained in the now closed Oddbins branches so that should keep him going for a little while. In addition the 52% of cost price that he apparently paid (the second time round at least) should generate a nice enough margin to invest in the stores now he has them in his ex-cellar portfolio.
I only hope that such blatant (behaviour)* isn't stood for in the trade.
* Comment has been edited.
That man has no shame, none whatsoever, maybe he would first like to pay mine and my partners redundancy and wages before he galavants around like the cat who got the cream. Unbelievable.
Absolute disgrace. The man shrugs off 700 people losing their jobs and £17.5 million of debt and starts bigging himself up again.
To make money out of Oddbins going bust by the better margins he gets by buying distressed stock is despicable, unless he plans to start paying people back - but somehow I doubt it.
Better hope for a snow free winter eh Simon?
It would be very upsetting if in the middle of the night ex-Oddbins members of staff went round to these branches with paint pens left over from defunct stores and inscribed inappropriate messages on the windows
Jim.
Why do you think Baile's bought all the stock from the closed Oddbins stores? Becuase no-one will supply him?
Anyway from reading previous posts of yours, he hasn't bought the stock. Gordon Brothers Europe have bought it. No doubt Baile has agreed a staged payment plan with them...
Did Baile ever answer all those questions you posed to him prior to the CVA meeting? Many of them still have relevance.
Any word of jubilation from M. Fonvert about Baile finally handing over cash for M. Fonvert's wines?
When will these branches be opening? And which poor, desperate suckers will be manning them?
Thanks for your comments. It is Deloitte's duty to sell the stock and they would be unlikely to get full price for it.
I doubt if M. Fonvert will ever see much of what he is owed. I spoke yesterday to a substantial trade creditor who doesn't expect to receive a penny.
Ugly man. No soul. Mean spirit. I wish him ill.
I can hardly believe the gall of this hubristic twerp. I hope everyone avoids this new sites like the plague.
What a smug bastard. Nobody should extend credit to ex cellar and customers should steer clear too. These people have shown scant regard for the welfare and future of many good people in oddbins and less regard for suppliers and indeed natural justice.
Comment by anon (edited):
There is of course also all of the lorryloads of wine that he managed to move out of the warehouse to the storage behind his Ashstead shop while Deloittes were taking over. Fortunately there are libel laws that prevent me suggesting that Baile is a spineless, callous, ***(deleted).
I wish Simon nothing but utter failure in his new venture. Lets hope any former staff approached to work for him tell him where to shove the offer,
I suppose it's good in that he'll be employing people again, albeit on a pathetic wage. I hope that all the suppliers demand payment before handing any stock/services over, once bitten... . Still very unimpressed by Delloite for not paying me for over 25 hours work.
This guy is a failure...news staff
read the small print....
T&C apply.... in case of a new CVA expect to be paid nothing or deal with the administrators....
less than minimum wage... 21 p to the pound....
This wouldn't happen in Australia, employees are the first to be paid under government regulation.
I had no idea there was such a miserable history behind the closure of Oddbins ... I detest 'businessmen' like Baile who think the world and all its good people are there simply to be exploited by loathesome worms like him. I, for one, will be steering clear of ExCellar for my Surbiton wine-purchasing, but wish its staff (especially the ones that Baile has managed to talk into coming back) the best of luck.
So Simon Faile is allowed to continue his reign of incompetence and disregard for employees and suppliers - great! Why is this man not being prosecuted for tax fraud. It is well known that he was taking tax from employees salaries and not passing it on to the taxman, surely that's a criminal offence?
How is it possible that a man who is md of a company that owes 18 million quid is able to buy shops and stock? Where's he getting the money from? And who would be fool enough to back him? I couldn't believe it when I read that he was buying 6 or 7 shops and all of the distressed stock! It sounds like that England is a great place to do business if all there is, is upside. He wouldn't be able to get away with it here in Australia where there are director's guarantees. In other words he'd be personally responsible for his share of the debt. Quite apart from the financial side of things, has this man got no ethics or conscience? My dad would have described him in no uncertain terms as a "bounder".
I've always wondered whether Simon set the whole thing up to fail. This has worked out very nicely for him; no more creditor issues, you can keep all the tax you owe, and you are no longer responsible for anything. Most importantly for such an egoist you can step out of the shadow of your father and make a name for yourself.
He's definitely done the latter.
James
Well put. And good questions.
He is apparently using Gordon Brothers to buy the stock no doubt he has told them he will pay them back as he sells it (out of the double margins he makes by buying it at half the original cost price)
As for Baile having ethics and conscience, I think you have answered your question.
I suspect many ex-employees and stitched up suppliers would have a slightly stronger word than "bounder" for Mr Baile.
where's the justice in this country???
and he's doing to do it again....
As a business owner i have lost money when clients close up and set up again. It is sharp practice and unacceptable. But all the posters here....clearly x employees, i understand your hurt but how would any other owner have done anything different. It seems that the company was half kaput before bailes team took over. Castel are the ones that really owe you your redundancy because it seems Oddbins never made enough to cover the liabilities.
There should be an organisation that looks at these company sales and decides then whether they are viable. If the administrator or someone like them had looked at the deal with baile they could have said this is not viable. You cannot continue with 50% of your stores and the current owner....Castel should have been liable for the redundancies. Instead it is passed on to some gullible fools who then take all the flak for the failure and loss of redundancy and supplier debts.
How much did oddbins owe before baile took over.
Anyone got any idea how Excellar are listed as oddbins creditors by huge amounts. How can that be?
If this debacle was indeed Castel's fault, why did the court not find in Oddbins' favour? The alternative to Simon Baile being at best bending and exploiting the rules, is that he is a useless ignorant businessman.
If I bought a company I would at least hire someone to check out the finances. If the advice given was wrong, then I'm surprised Oddbins have not sued.
Still no word of regret, & no apologies for ruining a great company (either through arrogance or ignorance).
Anon. I have to agree even though Castel bought something they didn't understand, one can't absolve Simon Baile and Henry Young from blame. Nobody forced them to buy Oddbins and they should have done their due diligence before buying. When they bought in 2008 it was no secret that Castel hadn't been successful with Oddbins and that the chain was in trouble.
Simon and Henry have blamed Castel and the snow for their failures, this is ridiculous. They never listened to the needs of the business and demoralised the staff much more than Castel ever did, some examples being; the three strikes and your out rule, decimation of staff leaving full-timers to work long hours solo without breaks, sporadic wine supply creating frustrated customers.
The 'legacy issue' of Castel was reported to be solved in October 2009. They gave a press release to announce their victory over Castel, just spin and lies. As an ex staff member, had I known the truth I could have bailed out of the business myself (pardon the pun) and found a job with a more stable company. But often being told that the business is a flying success, problems will be resolved and the points mentioned above are only temporary kept me there to be a part of it.
It's the lies that get me angry. Everyone has been duped. In comparison to Baile / Young rein, Castel was a blessing.
I worry for all ExCellar employees, if they are smart they'll find jobs elsewhere as history will repeat itself.
When I left Oddbins in 2009 staff were leaving left right and centre. I felt like the business was falling apart around us, with two out-of-their-depth schoolboys at the helm. One big fun experiment, doomed to (deliberately?) fail, leaving Baile free to do exactly what he's doing now.
We should've seen this coming. He used to get staff from his local branch to go and man his ExCellar shop in Ashstead as part of their Oddbins hours. Erm, pretty sure that's not on...
Ask any staff ,
Any coincidence.... Baile Out Chard...
Money thrown away for away on the best piece of literature that turned out to be what every single branch had most of it... sku..... Oddisey Magazine....
Castel fault, hum???
By the way , I am sure , neither Simon and Henry , are not drinking any Miles from Nowhhere
The most galling part of this saga? Simon's failure to apologise, and his complete silence in regard to the various criticisms that have been levelled at him all over the internet. A coward as well as a failure.
Naturally if Simon Baile wishes to respond to some of these criticisms, I would arrange for him to have a separate post.
I would just like to point out as an ex member of staff that there are a lot of comments here which assume that they know everything that went on in the company and which assign blame accordingly. I too lost my job when Oddbins went bust under Baile and Young. However, if you look back to the Castel years, you can see that the problems started there, with the terrible range that they put in and the substantial losses that they incurred. The chain lost money for far more years than just under Baile. I agree that blame should be apportioned to Baile for what happened, but I rather suspect that the management had their hands tied behind their back from the beginning. And not everything can always be seen in due diligence. Having read Jim's Loire blog for some time now, I have noticed that were never positive comments on here about Oddbins, or have not been for quite some time; not particularly balanced. I too am owed redundancy and am angry about what happened but none of us know all the facts and therefore we can't give a balanced judgement. What happened is terrible, but it's happening all over the high street at the moment: Threshers, Wine Rack, Woolworths, Faith, Mothercare etc. I'd question whether any of us could have done any better. Maybe the chain has been fated to collapse for years now.
Anonymous above
You are right. no-one knows the full story. But there are plenty of people who know a fair bit and Jim has very perceptively pieced much of it together in his excellent "Thoughts on Oddbins" blog.
You are right. Oddbins was no rose garden under Castel and there were many dark days. However they never lied to suppliers and staff like Baile has done. They held their hands up and said the business was doing badly yet they paid suppliers on time and taxes when they were due. (Pierre) Castel also spent his own money buying Oddbins in the first place and then keeping it going year after year.
No-one forced Baile to buy Oddbins but he was like a kid in a sweetshop. He announced himself as the Messiah and many people went along with it at first. Anything was better than Castel after all. But he lied then, as we know now. Look back through those early interviews he did with Off Licence News or Harpers. He never denied or sought to correct the oft-repeated assumption that he had investors behind him who bought Oddbins. He didn't and never did. As we know now, he bought Oddbins with Oddbins cash on a deferred basis, without having done his homework. When he realised it wasn't going to work, he started a ruinously expensive and futile lawsuit with his biggest creditor -Castel. This lawsuit was comprehensively thrown out a few weeks back. So running out of money, he starts playing supplier off against supplier maxing the credit limits here there and everywhere, causing massive stock issues. This knocks on to sales, and further demoralises all of us who are on "3 strikes and you're out" for not hitting target as we see customer after customer and account after account lose patience. Finally after months of this farce, he has the sheer neck to turn round and blame the snow for poor sales.
Aside from not putting a penny in, Baile and Young's considerable salaries and the fact that a combined 8 family members were on the payroll including Baile's 80 year old father does not suggest people who put in more than they took out. How many Finance Directors did he get through in 2 1/2 years. Was it 3 or 4?
That's why people are angry and rightly so. From what I've heard, there will be plenty more to come out of the wooodwork as to how Baile has conducted himself over the weeks and months to come.
Anon – 8 combined family members.
So is this correct please?: 3 Young daughters, Simon's father and sister (Ireland for the four shops) + Simon's wife running ExCellars? – Baile and Young as directors. At a guess combined outgoings of between £400,000 and £500,000 a year if all employed at the same time.
Jim
Almost correct. Not Baile's wife directly although it wouldn't be unsurprising if there wasn't some blurring of it for tax efficiency.
Baile's brother was contracted and renumerated (in full) as a consultant for redesigning the website. You could also add Baile's best man, Martin West as Marketing Director to the entourage.
They certainly were all on the books at the same time, for the last year or so and most of them for 2 years.
Any apologists for the Baile Young raping of oddbins have no clue. There are some well thought out and long comments from 'ex staff' here that are again trying to move the blame from these idiots to Castel. I firmly believe these comments are from the extended brood of the Young Baile Family. Go and f@ck off. Simon and Henry screwed up this company all by themselves.
The missed mortgage payments, the queue for the dole office, the shame, the ruination of good men and women is down to the greed and arrogance not to mention to bloody mindeness and ignorance of two men and their cursed families.
I hope the staff will recover. I hope Baile and Young rot in court.
Thanks anon for the details of family employment.
I think you'll find that the lawsuit against castle wasnt thrown out of court but is still very active. I spoke to someone who knows and this was confirmed to me. I also think that there is a lot of bile on this blog which makes it come across like a very one-sided set of arguments. What happened was awful but look what is happening all over the high street at the moment. Also, everybody knows that the company was about to go bust under castel, which is presumably why the only buyers they could find for it were Baile and young. Face it, the writing was on the wall for oddbins years ago. If Baile hadn't bought it it would have been in administration two years ago. He may have acted appallingly but there's more to it than that. What I want to know is why people seem to be more cross with Baile than with young?
Anon above (or whichever Baile relative you are)
- Well if the legal case is still alive, who is paying for it? If it is Deloitte spending the 6p in the pound suppliers and staff are apparently going to get, then they have a duty to declare it. Or are Baile and Young continuing some private campaign on a no win no fee basis? Perhaps you could ask the "someone who knows" who can confirm this?
- Oddbins would not have gone bust under Castel as it had Castel's backing. Castel would never have left £17.5 million of debt and screwed all those suppliers, particularly Mr Fontvert and his compadres in Bordeaux. It lost money year on year, they were keen to sell but they would never have cut and run in such a manner. Knowing how much money Oddbins was losing, would Castel willingly have sold it to someone who wasn't going to put a penny into it? Or was Baile being economical with the truth even then?
- High Street decline. Nonsense. Well run businesses are surviving and growing, badly run ones aren't.
- People are more cross with Baile over Young because one; Baile was the man talking time and time again what turned out to be pure bollox to the press, and was the man who personally lied to suppliers about whether they would be paid. He was in charge of the company finances, not Young. He ran up the ruinous tax bill.
Two; whilst Young was self-confessedly clueless and was banned from going to the shops because he upset the staff every time he went, since the debacle, he has seemingly had the grace to disappear from view and lick his wounds. Baile is back giving it the big I am, boasting about new stores, selling cheese and making a mint out of selling wine he bought for half the cost-price. He even had the nerve to turn up at the old Head Office last week and take a van load of furniture, none of which belonged to him.
Does that answer it?
Have to agree.... Young has stayed out of the way and had enough sense to shut up instead of showing off how he's expanding another chain while the rest of us are struggling on without jobs and are still owed money, which there's no guarantee we'll get.
My branch was one of the first 39 to close - I received a phone call at 1pm and was told to close that day. No indication of pay or notice was given. Nobody responded to my emails asking for some clarifcation of what I was meant to do. How is that a way to treat people?
I think the argument's can be fairly one-sided. Why not pay one of his bestest best friends or 2nd cousin twice removed to negotiate rents like any other sensible business person? Our landlord was more than happy to discuss terms if it meant keeping a tenant in there. Surely that should have been done years ago?
Hopefully he'll get the chance to understand what having to go through this feels like one day and then maybe be a bit more humble.
Oh dear, oh dear - Baile truly is the most unscrupulous of men and has demonstrated that repeatedly. As someone who has come across him in the trade, I for one will never use any of his stores and will recommend that nobody else does either. What right minded supplier will ever deal with Baile. Here's hoping Excellar goes bust.
It certainly looks like money has been screwed from the company by baile and friends if this is true then i wish them no good fortune at all....but I beileve from Jims blog that castel gave excellar the cash to buy oddbins from oddbins own money.as a loan. So i assume castel took that money and said thanks while baile assumed he'd be able to pay the loan back out of proits...but there were none because noone bought enough wine from oddbins. At the end i dont think baile et al bought the company with any intention other than to make a go of it. Id be amazed if they were canny enough to screw the company and suppliers and run off with the money, although as it became clear it was failing maybe they realised they they would not be harmed financially so why not take what we can....that is terrible. But it does mean we have to assume thats what they did and no-one knows for sure. I expect greed and incompetence are the cause....but again Castel took money out of the company by loaning excellar to buy oddbins.... i dont see them saying here have the money back...
I read these blogs because i know someone in the trade who brough my attention to the oddbins situation and how this blog was a vent for peoples anger.
I understand the anger but am a bit ashamed of the hate mob mentality that if anyone tries to suggest a different point of view they must be baile family members. You are morons if this is how you approach everything in life. Hate anyone with the nerve to ask questions instead of blindly following the mob.
Jim Budd i think you are responsible for fuelling this hatred.
I understand how suppliers and employees must feel i too have been cheated out of money by companies who close at the drop of a hat after making small personal fortunes for the owners. But people keep the comments balanced and reasonable. Try and just site facts. If they are personal opinions then make it clear.
But try and rise above pure mob bile.
Is Baile well known for screwing companies over....does he live tax free somewhere is he rich beyond belief or has he cocked up.
Baile continues in the spotlight because he is a wine shop owner, always has been. He kept quiet about the failings of oddbins i assume because to go out and say its all falling apart would accelerate its demise.
The biggest problem is what measures should be put in place to force company owners to declare they cannot meet their obigations to suppliers and employees.
How can companies trade for so long without the DTi or someone halting the decline and making sure redundancies are protected and suppliers also. The fear of legal action is the only way i can see....owners would then declare straight away that they are done for.
Quote
Oddbins would not have gone bust under Castel as it had Castel's backing. Castel would never have left £17.5 million of debt and screwed all those suppliers, particularly Mr Fontvert and his compadres in Bordeaux. It lost money year on year, they were keen to sell but they would never have cut and run in such a manner. Knowing how much money Oddbins was losing, would Castel willingly have sold it to someone who wasn't going to put a penny into it? Or was Baile being economical with the truth even then.
Well oddbins was bust under castel. They took more money out of oddbins and hence its employees and suppliers when they loaned baile the money to buy the company.
If a huge company like castel couldnt make it work how could a man who owns a couple of shops with no backing make it work. They got their money, dumped oddbins and let some patsies take the blame.
Anon: 'Jim Budd i think you are responsible for fuelling this hatred.'
Anon: Obviously you are entitled to your view. The disaffectation between some of the staff and Simon Baile was established sometime ago. I have reported on this disaffectation and there have been comments here by staff made redundant after many years of service.
I haven't fuelled this hatred/dislike/resentment but I have reflected its existence as it is proper for the press to do.
Jim, people respect your opinion on this matter so what do you think about the deal between Castel and Ex-Cellar.
Do you think Castel loaning the money was a dodgy way of taking more money from an ailing company. Do you think castel ever thought Oddbins could be run profitably by ExCellar or do you think they saw an opportunity to dump the company and redundancy obligations.
Do you think Excellar have been criminal or just hopeless?
How do you think this debacle could have been avoided. Basically Castel could have sold Oddbins to me by loaning me the money.
How could Oddbins get access to bonded stock and amass that tax loss.
Which body should have looked into the deal and then the operation of Oddbins bearing in mind taxes were lost and people loss due redundancy and livelihood.
You have done a good job of explaining the problem. How can something like this be avoided in future. Should suppliers have someone to turn to when bills arent being paid.
Anon. Thanks – some big questions here.
I really don't know enough about the deal between Castel and Ex Cellars to say much. Clearly Castel wanted to get rid of Oddbins and this sort of playing about with debt were the type of deals being done in the lead up to the financial crisis of September 2008.
My impression is that the top management of Oddbins was poor and arrogant. Depends if it can be shown that Oddbins traded while insolvent.
'How could Oddbins get access to bonded stock and amass that tax loss?' Fair question. I believe that there were agreements between Oddbins and HMRC to pay off the debts but that Oddbins may well have failed to keep up with the agreed payments.
The administrators have a responsibility to report on the running of Oddbins to the Insolvency Service, who could decide to ban individuals from being company directors.
Suppliers need to do their own crediot checks. There were a number of suppliers who declined to supply Oddbins because they were a bad risk.
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