1855 – can't pay €2750 or won't pay or trading while insolvent?

Charles Ponzi signing cheques – did he pay by instalments, too? 

Here is another extraordinary chapter in the 1855 saga. In 2009 TF ordered some 2008 Mouton-Rothschild en primeur from 1855 and then later also ordered some other 2009 Bordeaux en primeur. As is their practice 1855 failed to deliver the Mouton-Rothschild, so TF took his case to a Paris court. He was given judgment in his favour with 1855 ordered to pay €2750. TF instructed a bailiff (l'huissier) to collect the debt.

Amazingly the bailiff came back to TF and told him that 1855 was in financial difficulties, so could not pay €2750 and could they pay by instalments?!!

TF has told the bailiff that instalments are not acceptable. The bailiff has undertaken to seize assets to the value of €2750 if the debt isn't paid by the end of this week. 

If 1855 cannot pay the relatively trifling sum of €2750, does this indicate that they are trading while insolvent?


What I wonder does Jean-Pierre Meyers make of this?

Also small wonder that 1855 is no longer a member of La FEVAD

Message from TF (26.7.2012)

Jim

I thought that you would be interested in the email exchange below.

I have a judgment and have instructed a huissier who tells me that 1855.com is unable to settle the €2,750 judgment debt unless it pays by instalments.

It’s beyond a joke.

Regards

TF

The email correspondence:  

---

From: f.rodriguez@nocquet.org [mailto:f.rodriguez@nocquet.org] On Behalf Of huissiers@nocquet.org
Sent: 26 July 2012 10:23
To:  TF

Subject: Tr : Réf : Tr : RE: S005350/RG NO 91-11-137/ SA 1855

 

----- Réacheminé par Francisco RODRIGUES/noc le 26/07/2012 11:25 -----

Emma Martineau/noc 26/07/2012 11:10

A huissiers/noc@noc cc Objet Réf : Tr : RE: S005350/RG NO 91-11-137/ SA 1855Lien

Monsieur,

Je fais suite à votre courrier.

La société rencontre des difficultés financières, elle ne peut régler la totalité de la dette en une seule fois.

Si à la fin de la semaine je n'ai reçu aucun acompte, je diligente un procès verbal de saisie vente.

Je ne manquerai pas de vous tenir informé.


Mlle MARTINEAU Emmanuelle
SCP NOCQUET SALOMON FLUTRE
Huissiers de Justice Associés
10 avenue de l'Opéra
75001 Paris
Tel: 01 42 60 33 24
Fax: 01 49 27 06 67

huissiers/noc Envoyé par : Francisco RODRIGUES/noc 19/07/2012 14:04

A Emma Martineau/noc@noc cc Objet Tr : RE: S005350/RG NO 91-11-137/ SA 1855

----- Réacheminé par Francisco RODRIGUES/noc le 19/07/2012 14:06 -----

"TF" <*******.com> 19/07/2012 14:02

A SCP Nocquet Salomon Flutre 10 av. de l'Opéra 75001 PARIS cc Objet RE: S005350/RG NO 91-11-137/ SA 1855

Cher Monsieur

Ce n'est pas acceptable.

La dette jugement doit être payé en entier en un seul versement.

La société est commercial et possède des actifs qui pourraient être saisis et vendus afin d'effectuer le paiement.

Cordialement

TF



-----Original Message-----
From: SCP Nocquet Salomon Flutre 10 av. de l'Opéra 75001 PARIS [mailto:huissiers@nocquet.org]
Sent: 17 July 2012 17:25
To: TF
Subject: DR:S005350/RG NO 91-11-137/ SA 1855

                                            
 Le 17/07/2012


 REF. à rappeler :
 S00535  /0 / S
 TF
 SA 1855

       EF : RG NO 91-11-137




              Monsieur le Directeur,



              Je fais suite à votre courrier.

              Le commandement de payer aux fins de saisie vente a été
              signifié à la société débitrice.

              Cette dernière vient de me soumettre une proposition
              d'échéancier de paiement sans en indiquer les mensualités.

              A réception de la proposition modifiée je ne manquerai pas
              de vous tenir informé.

              Je vous prie de me croire,

              Votre bien dévoué.

1855: BIEV pressure growing on Fabien Hyon over Cave Privée

Charles Ponzi writing cheques 

A few interesting posts on the Cave Privée thread yesterday once more signalling the very welcome intervention of Bernard Michel of the Brigade Interrégionale d'Enquête Vins et Spiritueux (BIEV).

'Tank' had ordered wines through Cave Privée, which had not been delivered, so he had asked for a refund. With no sign of the cheque he contacted Bernard Michel, who almost immediately sent the following message to Fabien Hyon, managing director of 1855 and its associated companies ChateauOnline and Cave Privée.

Message from Bernard Michel:

'Monsieur Hyon

Dans le cadre de nos pouvoirs et en vertu du code de la consommation et de son article L. 121-20-3 qui précise à l'alinéa 2 que "en cas de défaut d'exécution du contrat (de vente à distance) par un fournisseur résultant de l'indisponibilité du bien ou du service commandé, le consommateur doit être informé de cette indisponibilité et doit, le cas échéant, pouvoir être remboursé sans délai et au plus tard dans les trente jours du paiement des sommes qu'il a versées", je viendrai vérifier vendredi matin 20 juillet 2012 en vos bureaux que le remboursement demandé par l'intéressé a été effectué.

Salutations distinguées

Bernard MICHEL'

The threat that Bernard Michel would again be visiting the offices of Cave Privée brought a rapid response from the company: 

Bonjour,

Votre chèque de remboursement vous a été envoyé ce jour.

Restant à votre disposition,

Cordialement,

Translation: 'The cheque is in the post.' On this occasion I think we can assume that the cheque really is on its way and is not yet another unfulfilled promise from 1855 and its associated companies.

I suggest that other customers of 1855, Cave Privée and ChateauOnline having problems with obtaining their wine or a refund contact Bernard Michel. 

Address for Bernard Michel and BIEV:

Brigade Interrégionale d'Enquête Vins et Spiritueux (BIEV) 

Direction Régionale des Entreprises, de la Concurrence, de la Consommation, du Travail et de l'Emploi (DIRECCTE)
Ministère de l'économie, des finances et de l'industrie
19, rue Madeleine Vionnet 93300 Aubervilliers
bernard.michel@direccte.gouv.fr
téléphone 01 70 96 16 14'

** 

Another way of getting a refund from 1855: 

A Dutch customer gets his refund:

'1855.com returned my money after I complained to the European Consumers Centre http://www.eccnl.eu/. The Dutch ECC accepted my complaint (+ invoice and mail exchange with 1855)  and transferred it within one working day to the France ECC department who took the case. I sent 1855 a mail telling them what I was doing. 1855 responded very quickly  with promising my wine delivery and my respond was that I was not interested in their promises. They could either return my money or send me my wine now. I received the money within 4 working days.

Thanks for your help and maybe this helps more of your readers.'

La Fevad: 1  1855: 0 ?

1855 would appear to be no longer a member of La Fevad. The company does not appear on the membership list. 1855 joined La Fevad as a probationary member in January 2011. It would appear that they have not passed their probation.  

1855 – 25% discount but still 75% bénéfices pour les arnaques...

"1855: are we crazy? OK we take 25% off but as we don't deliver we still pocket 75%!"

*

Two further examples of 1855's continued failure to deliver a significant proportion of the Bordeaux en primeurs that their customers order:

TC

I’ve been waiting for My 2006-2007 primeurs to be delivered by 1855.com for over 3 years now and I am trying to reach Fabien Hyon to settle the matter. Some of the wines that they cannot deliver are on sale on their website and deliverable within 48h, outrageous!

**

Philippe from '1855 Retard des Primeurs' Page125

Bonjour à tous,

Je suis nouvellement inscrit et je viens gonfler les rangs des clients en conflit avec 1855 au sujet de la livraison de primeurs 2008. J'ai une commande de plusieurs milliers d'euros en attente de livraison avec le parcours malheureusement habituel : mail , téléphone , promesses non tenues , mise en demeure ...

J'en arrive actuellement à l'action judiciaire avec l'aide d'un avocat...

**

Crazy? Sadly only those who still order from 1855 and their associated companies – Chateauonline and Caveprivée – and expect to receive their wine.  

** 

'Management' and leading shareholder of 1855 

Emeric Sauty de Chalon and Fabien Hyon are the senior 'management' (conseil des arnaques) team of 1855 (1855.com, 1855.con). Thierry Maincent was a director and one of the directeur général délégués until he resigned his posts for personal reasons on 30th September 2010. Businessman Jean-Pierre Meyers, who is on the boards of L'Oreal and Nestlé, is a long-term shareholder of 1855. 

1855 is a probationary member of La Fevad!!

1855: has Hollande's election spooked the shares?

1855's 5-day share movements@9am 

It may be coincidental but the trade price for shares in 1855 has been lower since François Hollande was elected President of France. Previously trading had been largely between 0.06 and 0.07€ a share. Now it oscillates between 0.05 and 0.06€. Volumes traded are also noticeably down but this may be in part due to the large number of French public holidays in May.

Yesterday the share closed down at 0.05 – down 16.67% on the year ie one centime. They opened up at 0.06 but have since slid back to 0.05 admittedly on thin trading. Already a junk bond will the price drop still lower?   

1855's 5–day share movements@10am  

Has Nicolas Sarkozy's defeat removed some of the high level protection that 1855 appeared to enjoy? There are suggestions that Sarkozy may have received illegal funding for his 2007 presidential campaign from the Bettencourts. Might in return 1855 have been treated leniently, despite its truly appalling trading record, as Jean-Pierre Meyer (the husband of Françoise Bettancourt) is a major shareholder in the company?  

Also it is not clear whether 1855 has now become a full-time member of La FEVAD. The ponzi scheme/scam was admitted as a provisional member of Le FEVAD on 31st January 2011. Certainly 1855 is listed as a member on the FEVAD site with no indication that they are on probation. If 1855 is now a full member I understand that La FEVAD will now become La Fédération des Escroqueries Virtuels et Arnaques Diverses and its code of conduct will be declared an official blague.  

  

1855 (1855.com): Report on hearing at Tribunal de Grande Instance de Paris

1855's offices at 10 Rue des Moulins, Paris

A report from GH on a hearing before the Tribunal de Grande Instance de Paris on 17th January 2012. This is just one example of well over 300 court cases involving 1855.

'As promised here is an update on my case. Yesterday (17^th January 2012) I was at the Tribunal de Grande Instance de Paris for the hearing. As you might remember I ordered 230+ bottles of 2008 primeurs with amongst others Lafite.

After all comments on the web and more specifically LPV (La Passion du Vin), I decided not to pay the VAT and transport charges until proof of my wines being available in their depot.

1855 tried to stall the procedure and asked for a postponement given they didn't had enough time to prepare. We did assign them on December 7th, so actually there was plenty of time. This was refused by the judge so the hearing went through (a first victory given most of the times 1855 obtains a postponement).

Then 1855's lawyer explained that it was impossible for them to deliver given I hadn't paid the VAT and transport charges. They also brought in quite a few other arguments and elements of jurisprudence.


My lawyer broke every single argument of 1855 (no delivery because no payment of VAT and transport costs, wines in stock over multiple locations thus very difficult to deliver within reasonable time, ...) and at a certain point the judge was actually making fun of them! The whole room was laughing although everybody realised that this was a rather sad story too often heard.

We asked for delivery against certified check from my bank for payment of VAT and transport costs and with a penalty (500EUR per day). In subsidiary case (if they are unable to give me the bottle's) to pay back of the actual value of the bottles - around 30.000EUR.

We also asked for a bank guarantee of 30.000 euro till the moment of delivery - as to protect ourselves if they went belly up and also asked for them to pay my legal expenses.

After the hearing we had a debriefing with my lawyer and 1855s and both believed we will get a court ruling ordering them to deliver the wines within 8 days after the verdict is published (which should happen on January 31st).

Also they believed I would have some form of bank guarantee for an amount between 7.500 (amount invested) and 30.000EUR (probably around 15.000) as well as repayment of legal charges.

My lawyer really did a great job and managed to corner 1855 lawyer completely. For those interested I used DDG as a lawyer. (Pierre Deprez and Gwendoline Cattier - cattier@ddg.fr)

We met another lawyer at the hearing and knowing the number of cases in front of the tribunals (84 at the TGI, over 200 at the TI and many more at the juge de proximite) we thought about starting une action au penal, a civil suit for criminal charges against the founders of 1855. Interested parties should join because we would hit them 1855 directly in their pockets and they could possibly face prison charges and a 'cassier judiciaire'. This would really push them towards settlement.'

**

Over 300 court cases involving 1855!

This is a quite staggering number of court cases before the French courts involving 1855. No wonder the company needs frequent injections of fresh capital just to meet their lawyers' bills. GH's tip on his lawyers – DDG – may well be worth following up.

**

Bon Vivant: Nicolas de Rouyn: some speculation:

1855, liquidation avant fermeture définitive ?

Sans être exagérément moqueur, force est de constater quelque chose qui ressemble à un mouvement de panique chez 1855.com. Leur opération promotionnelle annuelle tourne à la grande braderie. -70 %, c’est beaucoup.

Read the rest here.

**

1855's share price

Since the beginning of 2012 the price has oscillated between 0.07€ and 0.06€ (opening price for 2012) with roughly equal volumes being traded at these two prices, so the article in La Revue du Vin de France doesn't seem to have affected the share price for the moment, although there are no signs so far of the price going above 0.07. Last year's high was 0.28€ with a low of 0.05€.

The Sunday Telegraph, the UK's best selling more heavyweight Sunday newspaper, has been preparing an article on 1855 and its problems, which may well appear this weekend. It has a circulation of over 600,000 copies.

**

'Management' and leading shareholder of 1855

Emeric Sauty de Chalon and Fabien Hyon are the senior 'management' team of 1855 (1855.com, 1855.con). Thierry Maincent was an administrateur and one of the directeur général délégués until he resigned his posts for personal reasons on 30th September 2010. Businessman Jean-Pierre Meyers, who is on the boards of L'Oréal and Nestlé, is a long-term shareholder of 1855. Françoise Bettencourt-Meyers, the daughter of L’Oréal heiress Liliane Bettencourt, is also an investor in 1855.

1855 is a probationary member of La Fevad.

1855 (1855.com): towards the perfect zero (part 4)

Cusumano Benuara

Sad tale of how 1855 let down a now ex-customer over a Christmas present. They ordered three magnums of 2009 Cusumano Benuara from Sicily. Sadly the wine was not delivered although promised within 10 days on the 1855 site. Two emails ignored. The delivery might have been slow but 1855 trousered the client's money quickly enough!

"Nous avons commandé 3 Cusumano Benuara - magnum 2009 le 06/12/11 pour nos cadeaux de noël, fort du fait que sur le site il est noté que l'expédition se faisait dans les 10 jours. Nous avons tenté de les joindre de nombreuses fois, chaque fois messagerie. Nous leur avons envoyé deux emails qui sont eux aussi resté sans réponse. Par contre, le paiement a été encaissé tout de suite. De là à penser que ce sont des escrocs, il n'y a qu'un pas et pas très grand....."

Ce commentaire a été posté par noiry on Hervé Lalau Chroniques Vineuses.

This latest story suggests that Emeric Sauty de Chalon and Fabien Hyon may have greater ambitions regarding the 'perfect zero' than we thought. Not just content with royally pissing off their Bordeaux en primeur customers, they are doing the same to customers ordering wine that should be in stock. Their aim for 2012 may be to end up with no customers at all. I'm sure that there are many amongst the myriad of the 'friends' of 1855's who would be delighted to assist de Chalon and Hyon to achieve their ambition.

**

'Management' and leading shareholder of 1855

Emeric Sauty de Chalon and Fabien Hyon are the senior 'management' team of 1855 (1855.com, 1855.con). Thierry Maincent was an administrateur and one of the directeur général délégués until he resigned his posts for personal reasons on 30th September 2010. Businessman Jean-Pierre Meyers, who is on the boards of L'Oréal and Nestlé, is a long-term shareholder of 1855.

1855 is a probationary member of La Fevad.

1855 (1855.com): towards the perfect zero (part 3) – Emeric Sauty de Chalon and Fabien Hyon up for it!

Château Lynch-Bages, Pauillac – still 12 bottles of 2005 owed to AS

AS offered by poor value deal by 1855

AS is another lost 1855 client. Tired of waiting for his 2005s he opted to go to court to try to get his remaining and has just received this offer from 1855's lawyers: 

'I received this from 1855's Lawyers.

In short, they now advise me that they are not able to deliver the last 36 bottles (12 x Lynch Bages 2005, 12 x Kirwan 2005 and 12 Rauzan Segla 2005), despite having told me otherwise last month.

They are therefore proposing the following:

EUR 2,164.28 refund of the contractual value of the wine

EUR 432.85 compensation (stating this corresponds to an annual rate of 4% which apparently is set by precedent)

EUR 998.95 reflecting the cost between the actual value of the wines and the contractual value

EUR 3,596.08 in total

**

I'm delighted to see that 1855's management (Emeric Sauty de Chalon and Fabien Hyon) appear to be fully behind aiming for 'the perfect zero' in respect to Bordeaux en primeur sales in 2012 as the very poor value deal offered to AS will surely never persuade him to place any further orders with 1855. 

If you check the current prices for the three wines still to be delivered on wine-searcher.com and restrict the search to France you will find that these 2005s are still readily available.

Cheapest selling prices shown (10.1.2012: 

€1,607.00 Lynch Bages

€1,265.00 Kirwan 

€1,282.60 Rauzan Ségla

Total €4154.06 without any compensation compared to 1855's offer of €3596.08 with compensation or  €3163.23 without compenastion, so nearly €1000 less than it would cost to buy these three wines.

It would be too easy, however, to think that de Chalon and Hyon are pushing a sharp deal here. Rather, bearing in mind all the complaints and court cases involving 1855, they probably have little actual experience of purchasing fine Bordeaux, so such accusations would be decidedly unfair.

'Management' and leading shareholder of 1855 

Emeric Sauty de Chalon and Fabien Hyon are the senior 'management' team of 1855 (1855.com, 1855.con). Thierry Maincent was an administrateur and one of the directeur général délégués until he resigned his posts for personal reasons on 30th September 2010. Businessman Jean-Pierre Meyers, who is on the boards of L'Oréal and Nestlé, is a long-term shareholder of 1855.

1855 is a probationary member of La Fevad.

 

1855 (1855.com): towards the perfect zero

Château Latour

Message from Holland 

A message from another ex-customer of 1855, who won't be ordering any Bordeaux en primeurs from 1855 so helping the company avoid further grief by reducing their Bordeaux en primeur sales in 2012 to zero. See here.   

'All the best for 2012 in your struggles with 1855.

We followed J. F.´s advice and obtained an order for 1855 to deliver. As you can imagine they did not do this, but they did offer us a refund for the wines, which approximated to the market value.  
The cheque was promised in mid September, but we only received it (after some more complaining from our side) in early December. The amazing thing is that the cheque actually cleared! So we have our money back (after FIVE years of waiting). I would have preferred my wines, but what can you do? This irritation is out of our lives.

I hope that you get your wines!'

1855's Paris offices@10 Rue des Moulins

'Management' and leading shareholder of 1855 

Emeric Sauty de Chalon and Fabien Hyon are the senior 'management' team of 1855 (1855.com, 1855.con). Thierry Maincent was an administrateur and one of the directeur général délégués until he resigned his posts for personal reasons on 30th September 2010. Businessman Jean-Pierre Meyers, who is on the boards of L'Oréal and Nestlé, is a long-term shareholder of 1855. 

1855 is a probationary member of La Fevad.

1855 (1855.com): The latest complaint – more broken promises

The offices of 1855 (1855.con)@ 10 Rue des Moulins, 75001 Paris 

Latest complaint from a frustrated 1855 customer from ZX and received 27th December 2011:

Hi there,

I have been trying to have delivered a case of 2005 for over a year now. I have contacted them by phone, email and letter. Each time they promise 'in about six weeks', but still no success. Would you have any suggestions?

Thanks much

Latest message from 1855 (1855.com) to ZX

'Cher Monsieur,

Nous accusons réception de votre courrier en date du 29 octobre 2011 et vous en remercions.

Nous avons bien pris en compte votre demande de livraison des vins suivants:
- 6 bouteilles de Château Canon la Gaffelière 2005
- 6 bouteilles de Château Sociando-Mallet 2005

Votre demande a été transmise et nous faisons le nécessaire afin de pouvoir vous livrer dans les plus brefs délais. Néanmoins, la livraison pourrait s'échelonner jusqu'à la fin novembre.

Nous restons à votre entière disposition  pour tout complément d'informations.

Bien à vous,

Needless to say the end of November came and went without a delivery from 1855. Doubtless ZX is comforted by this statement from La Répression des fraudes that 1855 isn't a scam or a fraud:  

"Il n'y a ni tromperie ni fraude », détaille la Brigade interrégionale d'enquête sur les vins. « Les bouteilles existent bel et bien et ont été réservées par 1855.com aux négociants bordelais. Et le site ne vend pas deux fois le même produit."

**

'Management' and leading shareholder of 1855 

Emeric Sauty de Chalon and Fabien Hyon are the senior 'management' team of 1855 (1855.com, 1855.con). Thierry Maincent was an administrateur and one of the directeur général délégués until he resigned his posts for personal reasons on 30th September 2010. Businessman Jean-Pierre Meyers, who is on the boards of L'Oréal and Nestlé, is a long-term shareholder of 1855.

1855 is a probationary member of La Fevad.

1855: story in Property Week + another example of delayed 2008 en primeur

Château Mouton-Rothschild

Mark Adams, an extremely frustrated client of 1855, covers in his column in Property Week (160,000 unique pages views per month) his recent trip to a Paris court to try to prise his wine out of 1855.    

'If only I had purchased the case of Mouton Rothschild 2008 which brought me to Paris on 17 November from Corney & Barrow or Justerini & Brooks.  I would not then have had to appear before Le Juge de Proximité at 4 Place du Louvre at 09:30 as the wine would have dutifully arrived as ordered.'  Read the rest here.

Read also Mark's disappointing visit to Paris in more detail here in a previous Jim's Loire post.

***

Château Latour

A message from GH, a similarly frustrated client of 1855, now considering his legal options:

'I appreciate your comments and your efforts to bring to the light the business practices of 1855.

Their behaviour is a huge scandal; many questions arise why the French authorities didn't close down this company already a long time ago.

I am myself a victim of this company concerning the 2008 Bordeaux subscription and missing delivery of those wines so far as many other wine lovers are; not thinking about the problems of the 2009 Bordeaux delivery that will probably come to the surface soon...

Reading all the blogs now I honestly have a lot of doubts that I will ever see those wines especially with regards to the fact that I took advantage of the spring 2009 economic crisis with a bit depressed prices for the big names like Lafite Rothschild and Latour, wines that I am waiting for...

I had many phone calls and mail conversation with those guys from 1855 and just got to know that delivery is gonna be delayed but will certainly happen.

Here their latest mail that I just got 3 days ago:

Dear sir,

Thank you for your message.

We would like to get back to you regarding the 2008 deliveries.

Please be assured that our teams are working to shorten the delays as much as possible. We guarantee that all the wines in your order will be delivered by the end of this year in spite of those supplying delays.

You will be notified by email when the wines are ready to be shipped.

We would like to thank you for your patience, we remain at your disposal if you have any further questions.'

Let's hope that GH gets lucky and does indeed receive his 2008s before the end of 2011. 

**

'Management' and leading shareholder of 1855 

Emeric Sauty de Chalon and Fabien Hyon are the senior 'management' team of 1855 (1855.com, 1855.con). Thierry Maincent was an administrateur and one of the directeur général délégués until he resigned his posts for personal reasons on 30th September 2010. Businessman Jean-Pierre Meyers, who is on the boards of L'Oreal and Nestlé, is a long-term shareholder of 1855.


1855 is a probationary member of La Fevad.