(This is continues a debate started on the comment section of my post on my questions to Domaine Baumard. Rather than make a lengthy comment I have chosen to post both Jackie's comment and my response.)
From Jacqueline Friedrich
From Jacqueline Friedrich
Jim. This is a very thorny issue. It's not the first time the Baumards have been put on the firing line. I hope to address the issue more fully in my book. It would take much too long for me to get into all the details here.
I'm sure I don't have to tell you how gossipy and nasty vignerons can be about their neighbors and I'm pretty sure I've been shown the Baumard vineyards by the same people who directed you to them.
You seem to be able to get to Anjou with some frequency. Might I suggest you make an appointment with Jean and Florent and ask the questions about cryoextraction, vignes larges, and the opposition to the Chaume classification in person? (I might just point out here that IMHO the original decret making Chaume a Grand Cru was truly ill-conceived and it was inevitable that someone in Baumard's position would challenge it.
(For the record Jackie's original comment and my response on the earlier Baumard post:
'Jim, I think it's useful to point out that Domaine des Baumard has been making superb Quarts de Chaume for a long time and in many vintages predating cryoextraction. Jackie.'
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Jackie. I agree and I do say that I have admired their wines in the past. I also made this point in a previous post and that they have won a number of awards with their Quarts de Chaume.
It still, however, doesn't answer the question whether these vines meet the regulations for Quarts de Chaume and indeed whether Quarts de Chaume produced by cryoextraction should be given the appellation. The Quarts de Chaume producers have recently decided that in future it shouldn't.
Jim
Link here to the post and the comments.
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The debate is about yields and overcropping not about vignes larges etc.
Above Domaine Baumard: Quarts de Chaume: 26.9.2010
Chenin destined for Anjou Blanc: Saint Melanie-sur-l'Aubance: 27th September 2010
Bunch in the Coteaux de l'Aubance: 28th September 2010
Above Domaine Baumard: Quarts de Chaume: 26.9.2010
Jacqueline.
Thanks again for your comment, although I entirely reject the suggestion that my reporting has anything to do with ‘gossipy and nasty vignerons’. I have reported I hope fairly on what I saw. In any case I thnk the photos tell their own story.
I looked at a representative range of the vines in the Quarts de Chaume on Sunday 26th September and returned briefly on Tuesday 28th to have a further look.
I have just spent three weeks in the Loire travelling from the Pays Nantais to Pouilly-sur-Loire and have spent this time looking at vineyards and at the grapes coming into the wineries. I consider that it is essential for me to spend several weeks during the harvest and only wish that I could have spent more than three weeks.
So I went to the Quarts de Chaume as part of this exercise. I also went because as the Syndicat was meeting on Monday 27th to discuss cryoextraction as well as take other decisions such as limiting the weight of grapes that each vine carries to further bolster the credibility of the Quarts de Chaume. I wanted to look again at the topography and at how the vintage was shaping up.
As you can see from the photos the grapes on the Baumard vignes larges are dramatically different from those of their neighbours and of other vines belonging to Domaine Baumard in the Quarts de Chaume. Indeed having looked at Chenin in various parts of Anjou (26th-28th September) I saw nothing like those on the Baumard terraces.
This has nothing to do with the vignes larges controversy. This is to do with over-cropping in a prestigious appellation and nothing to do as far as I’m concerned whether there are 3000 vines or 8000 vines per hectare. I’m not a viticulturalist but I can recognise a mass of green and unripe grapes and see how different they are to those in neighbouring plots.
Do you consider that top quality Quarts de Chaume can be produced naturally at these cropping levels?
Do you consider that top quality Quarts de Chaume can be produced naturally at these cropping levels?
I assume that yields can be moderated on vignes larges, bunches thinned and well-ventilated as is increasingly the norm in Anjou and other parts of the Loire Valley. Properly tended I assume that quality Quarts de Chaume can be produced naturally with this style of vine.
As I have said several times I have been an admirer of the wines of Florent Baumard and indeed supported his brave decision to opt for screwcaps. I was utterly astonished and, indeed saddened, by what I saw on the terraces that Sunday. Particularly astonished since Jean Baumard has written a book about the Quarts de Chaume and taken court action over Chaume on two occasions. Given this I assumed that the Baumard vines would be impeccable. As you can see from the photos they weren’t.
I hope to see Florent Baumard at least at the Salon des Vins de Loire if not before, although I’m sorry that he has so far chosen not to respond to my questions, which I consider to be fair and relate specifically to overcropping and not to vignes larges, cryoextraction/cryosélection or to Chaume.
I suspect, however, that given recent decisions taken by the Syndicat des Quarts de Chaume to require an average of 18% potential and to limit the weight of fruit on the vignes larges to 2.5 kilos per vine will mean considerable changes here for the domaine. Short term such changes may be painful, difficult and expensive but long-term I suspect that Baumard's Quarts de Chaume will be better and more reflective of their terroir.
This debate also raises wider questions over the relationship between terroir and technology, which I intend to air in another post.
Santé Jim.
17th October: In the light of further comment here is a review of a 1969 Clos Sainte-Catherine made by Jean Baumard.
Jim, I wish you had printed the totality of my comments as you said you had.
ReplyDeleteAs I pointed out on your blog, I think it noteworthy that the Baumards have been making superb Quarts de Chaume since the late 1960s, long before the arrival of the technology of cryoextraction.
I'm sure you remember the bad-old days of Anjou wine, when sulfur and added sunshine in the form of sugar was the norm.
And I think you'll recall that there were only a handful of domaines that preserved the noble reputation of the wines of Anjou, among them, the Boivins, Dominique Jaudeau and Jean Baumard.
As I indicated to you, I intend to address the many issues that have made the Baumards such controversial figures in Anjou in the second edition of my Loire book.
Time does not permit my doing so here.
You raise a number of issues. In fairness to the Baumards, I feel you should speak with them personally -- not simply lance adversarial accusations via your blog, even with photos. It's no surprise you haven't heard from them.
A picture worth a thousand words? As a former trial lawyer, I can tell you that your evidence is weak and, based on the information you've presented, could be ripped apart on cross examination.
Let me ask you two questions: how about sharing with us your tasting notes on Baumards Quarts de Chaume prior to your "discovery" of his "overcropped" vines? And have you no confidence in your palate?
Jackie. Thanks for your comment.
ReplyDeleteI didn't post your first comment as I have already replied to it on the earlier post. However, I'm very happy to post both both your initial comment and my response, which I have now done and linked back to the post.
At no time have I said that Domaine des Baumard's Quarts de Chaume are poor wines. I have acknowledged their reputation, the awards the wines have won and that I have liked and praised them. I thought I had made that clear both in that post, in my response to your initial comment and in earlier posts.
Before posting on the blog I contacted Domaine Baumard with my questions. Obviously they have every right to prefer not to answer them.
Like you I'm delighted to see that the bad-old days have now past and am happy to acknowledge the part played by a few including Jean Baumard to preserve the noble tradition of Anjou.
I have written on a number of occasions about the renaissance of the sweet wines of Anjou – a renaissance that started now over 20 years ago.
I applaud the decisions taken by the Syndicat des Quarts de Chaume to ban cryoextraction, to limit the weight on grapes on each vine and to require an average of 18% potential alcohol with 17.5% minimum when picked.
These decisions should only increase the reputation of the Quarts de Chaume and I hope will in turn be followed by Bonnezeaux and perhaps the Layon village ACs.
We can debate whether there was a place for cryoextraction during the bad old days or in the earlier part of the sweet wine renaissance. The Syndicat has decided that this time is now clearly past.
Let me repeat that I have admired Baumard's wines – both their Quarts de Chaume and other wines. Whether, having seen the vines and the grapes on the terraces, they are truly an expression of their terroir or are significantly modified by the intervention of cryoextraction is an interesting question.
Jackie
ReplyDeletePS: I look forward to reading your new Loire book.
When is the new book due out please?
It would be good if the Quarts de Chaume producers/Syndicat were prepared to publish each domaine's declared yields over the past decade.
ReplyDeleteJim,
ReplyDeleteFirst, I do want to say that I regard you as a pal, a colleague and a fellow Loire enthusiast.I hope that my comments are taken in that spirit.
In your most recent post you do stress your previous admiration of Baumard's wines. One of the things that stood out to me in your original post was the following, I quote:
"Indeed as I have previously admired this domaine and its wines I assumed that theirs would be very similar to those of the other producers in the Quarts de Chaume. How wrong I was!"
Would you be willing to post your pre-September 2010 tasting notes on Baumard's Quarts de Chaume? That might be instructive.
I'm not surprised that the Baumards didn't answer your (I assume) written questions -- which did, indeed, seem adversarial -- and I doubt that Florent will have the time to discuss these issues with you at the Salon des Vins de Loire as the stand is always very crowded.
But I am sure they would be happy to sit down and explain their position with you at a calmer time.
When it comes to technology -- whether it's cryoextraction, reverse osmosis, or even temperature control -- is, perhaps, something we all need to discuss and for a number of reasons, among them, the extent to which the use of modern technology changes the expression of terroir. But while we're discussing technology we might also want to ask if the addition of water to fermenting must -- in order to lower alcohol -- also changes the expression of terroir. Ditto for bleeding the fermenting juice, adjusting acidity and so forth.
Thanks for asking about Loire2. I'm hard at work on it but, as you well know, so much has changed that 99% of the book will be entirely new.
Cheers,
Jackie
Thanks Jackie
ReplyDeleteI agree that the role of technology in its many facets needs to be discussed – see one of my posts yesterday.
Although I do have doubts about some of the natural wine movement it has usefully highlighted the technology and intervention debate.
My strong feeling is that wines in top appellations like the Quarts de Chaume should be made as naturally as possible without recourse to cryoextraction, reverse osmosis etc. Better vineyard manaagement now makes that possible.
As far as tasting notes are concerned I do not catalogue them, although I do keep all of my notebooks. The reason I don't catalogue them is partly a question of time but also a tasting note is a moment in time and how the wine tastes will vary with time.
If I did catalogue the notes I would be happy to publish them. However, the most important thing is that I have had a more than favourable impression of Baumard's wines from both sides of the Loire for many years.
How far with cryoextraction in the Q de C they are a expression of their terroir and whether this process has permitted a higher cropping level than other estates in the appellation are separate questions.
It would be good if the Q de C producers would follow the example of the late Didier Dagueneau and publish their yields over the past decade.
Santé Jim