Autumn colours in the Layon 2005
(Received by email from Jean Baumard: 17th September 2010)
Cher Jim BUDD,
Je vous adresse ci-joint un document ayant trait aux mentions de hiérarchie valorisante en Val de Loire. Cela vous intéressera peut-être ? (see next post)
Par ailleurs, j'ai lu l'article de votre blog Les 5 du vin, consacré au Quarts de Chaume.
Je sais qu'un bon journaliste doit être le premier renseigné. Aussi, je ne suis pas surpris que vous connaissiez à l'avance le résultat de la prochaine réunion de l'ODG Quarts de Chaume.
Mais sur le fond du sujet, il me semble que vous faites confusion entre cryoextraction et cryosélection. Vous n'êtes pas le seul en ce cas. Je suis toujours surpris que les jugements portés sur la cryosélection émanent de personnes qui n'ont aucune connaissance de la théorie des phénomènes qui président à ce processus. Elles n'ont consulté aucune des communications sérieuses effectuées sur ce sujet , ni ne signalent les sources de leur information. A fortiori, elles n'ont pratiqué elles-mêmes aucune expérimentation.
Pour ma part, la cryosélection m'apparaît être une des découvertes oenologiques majeures de la fin du XXème siècle. Son application demande certes beaucoup de discernement de la part du praticien. Cela va d'ailleurs bien au delà de la simple utilisation d'un matériel. Mais elle apporte un progrès important dans la moralité des vinifications. Par exemple, elle met fin aux apports exogènes (sucre et moûts concentrés notamment) dans le moût naturel, ajouts souvent camouflés. Elle évite en plus une acidité volatile exagérée et des mauvais goûts.
Je ne vais pas ici épuiser le sujet, mais je trouve scandaleux qu'on persiste à ignorer officiellement le potentiel de ce procédé physique, à priori.
A ce jour, la cryosélection n'est pas interdite dans l'espace européen et c'est tout à fait légalement qu'on peut l'utiliser. Faut-il l'indiquer sur l'étiquette ? Pourquoi pas ? Ce n'est nullement honteux que de se servir du progrès. L'AOC Quarts de Chaume n'en serait pas pour autant une AOC "congelée", comme vous l'écrivez , puisque que dans les faits c'est l'inverse qui se passe : dans la cryosélection, seuls les raisins non congelés, restés en phase liquide, produisent du jus.
Cher Jim BUDD, ne criez pas haro sur ce que vous connaissez mal. Il y a encore en France, suffisamment d'AOC sucrées (même le Champagne), d'AOC arrosées (irrigation dans le sud), d'AOC alcoolisées (vins doux dits naturels) -je ne vais pas ici non plus épuiser ce sujet - pour exercer votre talent de journaliste sur un ton satirique.
Vous savez l'intérêt ancien que je porte à l'AOC Quarts de Chaume. J'espère que vous voudrez bien continuer à me créditer de cette fidélité.
Bien sincèrement.
Jean BAUMARD
*
Cher Jean
Many thanks for your message.
I should make one thing clear from the start: I have no idea nor did I suggest that I might know what the outcome of the meeting of the Syndicat des Quarts de Chaume on 27th September will be. I'm considerably surprised that you claim that I know the outcome.
I should apologise for the delay in replying to your message. This is because I wanted to ask a number of experienced and highly competent Loire producers what the difference is between cryoextraction and cryosélection. The winemakers I asked included well reputed sweet winemakers who have served on INAO commissions. None of them have been aware of the difference.
You accuse me of not knowing what I am talking about ('ce que vous connaissez mal') and of confusing cryoextraction with cryosélection. I appear to be in good company – Alain Desenne of the Chambre d'Agriculture Gironde says that they are one and the same (Rappel des différentes techniques d'enrichissement – 30.9.2005):
'2.1.1. La cryo-sélection ou cryo-extraction
C'est une technique qui s'applique qu'à la vendange entière. Elle consiste à sélectionner par le froid les baies les plus concentrées. (...)'
For more, see here: http://www.matevi-france.com/experimentations/techenrich05.pdf
Furthermore as I far as I can see neither you nor Pascal Laffourcade have provided any explanation or evidence to show what is the difference between cryoextraction and cryosélection, although you have asserted that there is a difference. I'm tempted to conclude that, as did some of the producers I asked, that cryosélection sounds less of a Frankenstein technique than cryoextraction.
You say that cryosélection is 'une des découvertes oenologiques majeures de la fin du XXème siècle'. That may be but I would suggest that as far as the sweet wines of Anjou are concerned the major rediscovery of the latter part of the 20th century was the technique of harvesting 'par tris sélectifs' that had largely been ignored during the bad days of the late 1960s, 1970s and through to the early 1980s. I would argue that it is the use of this old technique that has been most responsible for the renaissance of the wonderful sweet wines of the Layon and l'Aubance. If you permit cryoextraction – cryosélection (call it what you will), then this will undermine selective picking. Producers will be tempted to pick early and leave the concentrator to do rest.
As you know the addition of 'sucre et moûts concentrés' is not permitted for the Quarts de Chaume, so this is hardly a reason for allowing the use of cryoextraction (soi-disant cryosélection) in the AC.
It is kind, thoughtful and quite beyond the call of duty for you to suggest other wine-related subjects for me to explore. However, none I fear are of particular interest – sugar in Champagne – quelle surprise! Instead I prefer to concentrate on the Loire.
Although I have no idea what decisions the Syndicat will make at their meeting next Monday, I hope they will decide that cryoextraction-cryosélection has no place in the Quarts de Chaume. I remain bemused that you, who have spent so much time and energy defending the reputation of the Quarts de Chaume against its close neighbours, should consider even briefly that such a technique is appropriate here.
You also kindly send me a copy of your 'trait aux mentions de hiérarchie valorisante en Val de Loire' (added as an additional post). You make some interesting points. I will just make just two observations:
Firstly I'm struck by your apparent animus towards Chaume, which appears to have become an obsession – doubtless a magnificent one but an obsession all the same.
You say 'ce statu quo correspond d'ailleurs à la réalité du marché . Le Coteaux du Layon Chaume est vendu deux à trois fois moins cher que le Quarts de Chaume. Sa notoriété bien moindre et beaucoup plus récente, provient essentiellement du nom emprunté à Chaume.' Have a look at the difference in price between 2009 Lafite and the 'super seconds' or compare the price of 1er Cru Chassagne-Montrachet with Le Montrachet. You will see that the difference can be way more than three times more expensive.
Furthermore if you have a look at www.wine-searcher.com (an excellent site which shows the reality of the market) you will see that the difference in price between Chaume and Quarts de Chaume is nothing like as great as you suggest. For example the 2007 Chaume from Château Soucherie is listed at 23.34€, while 2007 Quarts de Chaume from Domaine des Forges is listed at 33.46€ – a difference of only 43%.
Bien cordialement
Jim
You accuse me of not knowing what I am talking about ('ce que vous connaissez mal') and of confusing cryoextraction with cryosélection. I appear to be in good company – Alain Desenne of the Chambre d'Agriculture Gironde says that they are one and the same (Rappel des différentes techniques d'enrichissement – 30.9.2005):
'2.1.1. La cryo-sélection ou cryo-extraction
C'est une technique qui s'applique qu'à la vendange entière. Elle consiste à sélectionner par le froid les baies les plus concentrées. (...)'
For more, see here: http://www.matevi-france.com/experimentations/techenrich05.pdf
Furthermore as I far as I can see neither you nor Pascal Laffourcade have provided any explanation or evidence to show what is the difference between cryoextraction and cryosélection, although you have asserted that there is a difference. I'm tempted to conclude that, as did some of the producers I asked, that cryosélection sounds less of a Frankenstein technique than cryoextraction.
You say that cryosélection is 'une des découvertes oenologiques majeures de la fin du XXème siècle'. That may be but I would suggest that as far as the sweet wines of Anjou are concerned the major rediscovery of the latter part of the 20th century was the technique of harvesting 'par tris sélectifs' that had largely been ignored during the bad days of the late 1960s, 1970s and through to the early 1980s. I would argue that it is the use of this old technique that has been most responsible for the renaissance of the wonderful sweet wines of the Layon and l'Aubance. If you permit cryoextraction – cryosélection (call it what you will), then this will undermine selective picking. Producers will be tempted to pick early and leave the concentrator to do rest.
As you know the addition of 'sucre et moûts concentrés' is not permitted for the Quarts de Chaume, so this is hardly a reason for allowing the use of cryoextraction (soi-disant cryosélection) in the AC.
It is kind, thoughtful and quite beyond the call of duty for you to suggest other wine-related subjects for me to explore. However, none I fear are of particular interest – sugar in Champagne – quelle surprise! Instead I prefer to concentrate on the Loire.
Although I have no idea what decisions the Syndicat will make at their meeting next Monday, I hope they will decide that cryoextraction-cryosélection has no place in the Quarts de Chaume. I remain bemused that you, who have spent so much time and energy defending the reputation of the Quarts de Chaume against its close neighbours, should consider even briefly that such a technique is appropriate here.
**
You also kindly send me a copy of your 'trait aux mentions de hiérarchie valorisante en Val de Loire' (added as an additional post). You make some interesting points. I will just make just two observations:
Firstly I'm struck by your apparent animus towards Chaume, which appears to have become an obsession – doubtless a magnificent one but an obsession all the same.
You say 'ce statu quo correspond d'ailleurs à la réalité du marché . Le Coteaux du Layon Chaume est vendu deux à trois fois moins cher que le Quarts de Chaume. Sa notoriété bien moindre et beaucoup plus récente, provient essentiellement du nom emprunté à Chaume.' Have a look at the difference in price between 2009 Lafite and the 'super seconds' or compare the price of 1er Cru Chassagne-Montrachet with Le Montrachet. You will see that the difference can be way more than three times more expensive.
Furthermore if you have a look at www.wine-searcher.com (an excellent site which shows the reality of the market) you will see that the difference in price between Chaume and Quarts de Chaume is nothing like as great as you suggest. For example the 2007 Chaume from Château Soucherie is listed at 23.34€, while 2007 Quarts de Chaume from Domaine des Forges is listed at 33.46€ – a difference of only 43%.
Bien cordialement
Jim
3 comments:
Very interesting. I have learnt something today. Thank you M. Beaumard, I wish everyone in the AOC world were both as precise and passionate as you are.
But there remains another issue which i would like to be addressed: wine styles within one given AOC - such like Coteaux du Layon (or Quart de Chaume). Please allow me to quote myself:
http://hlalau.skynetblogs.be/archive/2010/04/25/mon-grain-de-sucre-sur-les-coteaux-du-layon.html
Your answer would be most welcome
Hervé Lalau
According to Alain Desenne (Chambre d'Agriculture de Gironde) Cryo-sélection and Cryo-extraction are one thing and the same. In his document, "Rappel des différentes techniques d'enrichissement", this is what he says:
2.1.1. La cryo-sélection ou cryo-extraction
C'est une technique qui s'applique qu'à la vendange entière. Elle consiste à sélectionner par le froid les baies les plus concentrées. (...)
For more, see here: http://www.matevi-france.com/experimentations/techenrich05.pdf
So maybe Mr Beaumard is thinking about a different technique which happens to bear he same name.
Reminds me the story about Shakespeare who were written by another guy named Shakespeare.
Anyway, one thing is clear: all the harvest is used, without any pre-selection or tri. And cryo-selection is enrichissement, which in turn is something used to avoid bad years, not what you would call a token to a great terroir. Anybody ever thought about NOT producing Layon in bad years? Oh, come, that's mean.
Hervé Lalau
Thanks Hervé for confirming what I suspected, although Jean claimed that I was ill-informed.
Dedicated producers can make reasonable Coteaux du Layon even in difficult years partly due to the terroir but also due to the remarkable attributes of Chenin Blanc.
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