tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456611623448834500.post7512511760398922698..comments2023-12-18T15:03:52.326+00:00Comments on Jim's Loire: Campogate: No Pay – No JayCRMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12356808627188214016noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456611623448834500.post-18493857831306622652011-12-23T15:10:11.471+00:002011-12-23T15:10:11.471+00:00Great work Jim & Harold, and kudos to you for ...Great work Jim & Harold, and kudos to you for sticking to your guns in face of the usual threats of litigation etc.<br /><br />The wine business, a very big business nowadays, is littered with grey zones between supposedly independent reviewers/tasters/experts and producers/distributors. <br /><br />We--- the consumers--- need to be very aware of the influence exerted on the "independent" experts. If they claim to be truly independent, they ought to publish their accounts. <br /><br />How much of their operational costs are covered by web ads, paid trips, interest group seminars, joint ventures with on-line merchants, etc, versus income from consumers (book sales etc)? Follow the money, and make up your own mind about their "independence" working in the interest of the consumer. <br /><br />In what other sector of consumer goods are the expert reviewers sleeping so tightly in bed with the producers/distributors? Why are we so lenient with the "independent" entourage that follows the wine industry?<br /><br />To many so-called independents, the inherent hypocrisy in the system is an incredibly sensitive issue, and that's precisely why revelations such as the one in this blog hurt so much and everybody start screaming about litigation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456611623448834500.post-3890427510907600942011-12-12T13:10:45.298+00:002011-12-12T13:10:45.298+00:00'Pancho's email of 4th June suggests that ...'Pancho's email of 4th June suggests that Miller may be involved in the payment. However, I do not consider Campo to be a credible witness. I have invited Miller to comment on this email and hope that he will take this opportunity to clarify the position.'<br /><br />Re my comment of 30th November 2011. This should be Pancho's email of 3rd June 2011 not the 4th June. I have repeated this error is a number of subsequent posts. My apologies for the confusion – in the text of the post the date: 3rd June 2011 is clearly stated.<br /><br />Corrections are being made.Jim's Loirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06696024920441263899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456611623448834500.post-59013848126246769162011-12-07T07:20:01.327+00:002011-12-07T07:20:01.327+00:00Vincent. Thanks. I think it was also the siege men...Vincent. Thanks. I think it was also the siege mentality of TWA – the sense of always being under attack – allied with a dismissive view towards blogs that meant that neither Miller or Parker really started to ask the necessary questions once this latest scandal started. <br /><br />Made even more difficult because it coincided with WineFuture Hong Kong.Jim's Loirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06696024920441263899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456611623448834500.post-12230364376278651602011-12-07T05:46:14.757+00:002011-12-07T05:46:14.757+00:00Really, I think that one of Dr Miller's bigges...Really, I think that one of Dr Miller's biggest problems in Spain was not to speak spanish. A lot of people (in the "Mondovino") knew the way it was. What a pity he couldn't discuss with them…Vincent Poussonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13080212282701988499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456611623448834500.post-62600001113526008482011-12-06T23:57:29.613+00:002011-12-06T23:57:29.613+00:00Anon. If you read the emails from Pancho and The W...Anon. If you read the emails from Pancho and The Wine Academy you will see that 'no pay - no Jay' is precisely the ploy. The link, in relation to Vinos de Madrid was made back in June.Jim's Loirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06696024920441263899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456611623448834500.post-83943270695320075232011-12-06T23:49:04.499+00:002011-12-06T23:49:04.499+00:00The assertion of "No pay – no Jay" is a ...The assertion of "No pay – no Jay" is a knee-jerk sweeping statement. While it may come after, as you suggest, a 'seriers of emails', you yourself accept (at this point at least) you have, 'not accused Miller of taking money to visit regions and taste their wines'.<br /><br />Yet you link the two issues and people above. <br /><br />Few could admire that.<br /><br />In linking the two issues: one of substance (perhaps) and one that, at this point, is merely pandering to the lowest for self-gain, you have damage readers' credulity in the future. <br /><br />If you were fair or thoughtful you would have disentangled each from each other, for the time being. That would have been the first test of fairness and decency. <br /><br />And to be fair, you still could do this. <br /><br />Just call me less than impressed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456611623448834500.post-42596398683468891102011-12-06T21:57:33.122+00:002011-12-06T21:57:33.122+00:00Anon. Thanks for your comments.
I would dispute ...Anon. Thanks for your comments. <br /><br />I would dispute that your description of a 'knee-jeck statement' coming as it does after the seriers of emails. However, I'm happy to again stress that I have not accused Miller of taking money to visit regions and taste their wines. <br /><br />I do believe that the masterclasses being closely linked to the official visits of Miller as TWA reviewer was too cosy an arrangement and became effectively a way of Campo providing Miller with money for his visits. In the circumstances this was inappropriate behaviour by Miller. I have no problem with Miller being paid for giving masterclasses or seminar but these should have been properly separate.<br /><br />I have stressed before that this is not a witch-hunt or whatever against Jay Miller, Robert Parker or TWA. I fancy they have been manipulated by Campo as has the Spanish wine industry. I hope this now at an end. I fear that the damage that Campo has caused will be more long lasting than this particular scandal.<br /><br />It is a pity you chose to comment anonymously a name would have carried more force.Jim's Loirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06696024920441263899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456611623448834500.post-63670681574767143992011-12-06T20:14:43.190+00:002011-12-06T20:14:43.190+00:00Knee-jerk sweeping statements like: "The res...Knee-jerk sweeping statements like: "The result: No pay – no Jay" (when the fellow hasn't ever been paid out of turn for reviewing wines) would lead any reader with a modicum of intelligence or decency to seriously question whether or not to fully trust your judgement again. <br /><br />Fortunately, looking at the comments above, this should not pose any immediate problem as of now.<br /><br />However, clearly separating the "witch-hunt" / Miller aspect (that so appeals to the above) with that of investigating Campo, might be an idea in terms of retaining your fine reputation. <br /><br />In in truth, Jay is actually very tasteful. Certainly he didn't fly out to Davos (à la Jancis), nor robustly partake of Rodenstock hospitality before putting the knife in ( à la Jancis), nor did give credibility to Pancho Campo ( à la Jancis) by attending Wine Future-Rioja 09 and Wine Future- Hong Kong 11 (if no fee then certainly five star expenses + ). <br /><br />The Wine Advocate is one of the first (and only) publications to cover Spain in any detail regularly, in an attempt to provide comprehensive, vintage-on-vintage. (Of course the same could apply to any wine region of the world.)<br /><br />To real crime here may just be a certain laziness and complacency on behalf of the others. <br /><br />Take the UK for a moment. There is no publication that has visited or covered Spanish wine regions in the last decade even somewhat comprehensively in each vintage. The same could be said for Champagne. <br /><br />That is the real crime. <br /><br />Good luck with looking into the Pancho-isms. Dare say you will discover it's a case of using a situation to your own advantage, while delivering very little. Sound familiar. <br /><br />As that great hero of the British left once said: "tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime''. <br /><br />Get tough on the causes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456611623448834500.post-38644344512308114732011-12-06T02:28:21.348+00:002011-12-06T02:28:21.348+00:00Looking at Jay Miller, whom I have never before se...Looking at Jay Miller, whom I have never before seen, I can say with some degree of medical certainty, that here is a man who will not live out his anticipated life expectancy without some major lifestyle changes. Morbidly obese. He likely has hypertension and pre-diabetes. No time like right now to turn things around. This is an opportunity. Seize it. Any of you commenters who see a bit of yourself in him as well, do the same.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456611623448834500.post-38910980258895913112011-12-05T19:35:30.913+00:002011-12-05T19:35:30.913+00:00Dear Jim,
Jay Williams traveled to Brazil this ye...Dear Jim,<br /><br />Jay Williams traveled to Brazil this year and tasted some of our wines. Did you ever hear some kind of business envolving this trip?Affonso Nuneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05367932437831424269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456611623448834500.post-12046635256246238472011-12-05T16:15:37.852+00:002011-12-05T16:15:37.852+00:00Great piece. I don't know or care what the Em...Great piece. I don't know or care what the Emperor Bob III knew or when he knew it. Remember that when the first Beaux Freres wines were released, Parker announced that as 1/3 owner, he would not review the wines as it would be unethical. He (and his brother in law) then sent an initial offering of BF wines to every Advocate subscriber in the (then 14) direct legal states. What was that worth? Does Consumer Reports sell toaster ovens by mail to their own subscribers?Stillman Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04691385422597182522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456611623448834500.post-5663108835901838312011-12-03T22:44:03.403+00:002011-12-03T22:44:03.403+00:00I am a huge supporter and fan of Spanish wine and ...I am a huge supporter and fan of Spanish wine and find it a shame that Pancho Campo has become the visible mouthpiece for this country. I've taken his wine academy class on Spanish wines and found it full of incorrect information and frankly did nothing to benefit or educate wine professionals on Spanish wines. It was pretty pictures, donated wines from a couple of large Spanish wine companies and PR for a couple of wineries that I'm sure paid for the benfit of being mentioned. I wouldn't be surprised if this was entirely his doing to profit from his rold, but it's a shame on Parker that he doesn't cut him loose. It is just flat out unfortunate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456611623448834500.post-57706767791779895722011-12-02T23:52:13.594+00:002011-12-02T23:52:13.594+00:00"Respect", I wanted to speak about this ..."Respect", I wanted to speak about this word, today, at Berthomeau's…<br /><br />http://www.berthomeau.com/article-vincent-pousson-pense-a-tous-ces-gens-qui-sont-chacun-un-petit-morceau-du-vin-d-espagne-abimes-par-l-91015015.htmlVincent Poussonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13080212282701988499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456611623448834500.post-43396409226902872392011-12-02T23:35:50.377+00:002011-12-02T23:35:50.377+00:00Napa anon. Thanks. I'm sure that is right. It ...Napa anon. Thanks. I'm sure that is right. It is unfortunate that what has been permitted to develop in Spain with Campo is in danger of damaging the work of people that I respect who work for Team Parker.Jim's Loirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06696024920441263899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456611623448834500.post-76961367500735346412011-12-02T23:26:30.962+00:002011-12-02T23:26:30.962+00:00Just wanted to mention that I work with several wi...Just wanted to mention that I work with several wineries here in Napa Valley - two of whom held tastings with Galloni in October. Neither one was asked for a fee to participate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456611623448834500.post-89090419039557644482011-12-02T14:19:57.528+00:002011-12-02T14:19:57.528+00:00It is truly amazing that Parker keeps turning a bl...It is truly amazing that Parker keeps turning a blind eye to this. Not only a blind eye, but unleashing threats and hostility towards simple questions and those who ask them. Lawyer time! One has to ask: where, exactly does he draw the line? Not where does he SAY he draws the line, but where he actually follows through? He has a long track record of deflecting the tough questions and, sadly, they almost always do fade away.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456611623448834500.post-23630217038315391802011-12-01T14:49:55.694+00:002011-12-01T14:49:55.694+00:00John. Thank you. I was coming to Valencia. I would...John. Thank you. I was coming to Valencia. I would be very interested in seeing the email from the winery and indeed any other correspondence they have relating to this visit. They can be assured that their identity will be protected. My is email is budmac@btinternet.com<br /><br />My guess is that Valencia paid more as it is a larger DO. I'm told that Jimenéz of Asevin felt that Murcia had done well paying 29,000€ when Valencia had paid more. Any documented evidence would be most welcome.<br /><br />Many thanks<br /><br />JimJim's Loirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06696024920441263899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456611623448834500.post-4566646424224376122011-12-01T14:20:17.034+00:002011-12-01T14:20:17.034+00:00Any news or views on the Miller/Campo event in Val...Any news or views on the Miller/Campo event in Valencia yesterday, 30 November? I have an email from a Valencia winery stating they paid 500 euros for one of their wines to be included. No idea what other sums may have been involved from Consejo Regulador or others, if any.John Maherhttp://www.winesofvalencia.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456611623448834500.post-6862616064817006462011-11-30T23:41:59.439+00:002011-11-30T23:41:59.439+00:00Jim:
Thanks for the reply.
FWIW, Mr. Parker has j...Jim:<br /><br />Thanks for the reply.<br />FWIW, Mr. Parker has just posted the following about this matter on his website:<br /><br /><i>"This blogger posted about Miller/Campo charging for tasting Spanish wines or for visiting Spanish wineries a while ago.We launched an investigation at that time despite the fact that both Miller/Campo denied all the allegations. We found no substance or truth to any of the allegations.Now he has brought similar charges. This time we have requested our lawyers to fully examine every allegation again, and they have also retained an additional lawyer, from Madrid, to study the allegations, and if again false, consider legal action. Jay chooses and controls 100% of the wines he tastes and wineries he visits. He uses the Spanish Wine Academy(Pancho Campo is their President) to assist in organization.We would never permit a winery to pay us for the priviledge of tasting their wine or visiting the winery.Moreover, Campo also understands his organization cannot charge wineries for Miller's visits.Both of them have full knowledge that is an appalling conflict of interest that would not be tolerated under any circumstance.There have been trade conferences organized by the Spanish Wine Academy that Jay has been paid a fee of $10,000(which seems reasonable) and far less than the amounts reported by this blogger.<br /> I have been asked by our USA lawyers to refrain from commenting about this given the potential lawsuits by Jay,by Pancho, and possibly by TWA against these bloggers.Until we are 100% certain of all the facts, I think this subject, which appears to be a reckless and malicious disregard for the truth and clearly aimed at damaging Miller, Campo, and TWA, needs to be closed."</i><br /><br />Things appear to be heating up...<br /><br />Regards,Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456611623448834500.post-88070153093345966322011-11-30T23:29:15.286+00:002011-11-30T23:29:15.286+00:00Anon: 'Has it been shown to your satisfaction ...Anon: 'Has it been shown to your satisfaction that anyone at the Wine Advocate knew of this pay for play proposal?'<br /><br />Anon: My assumption for the meoment is no. I can't image that Robert Parker has this sort of behaviour in mind when it was arranged that Campo should organise Miller's Spanish diary and visits. <br /><br />Indeed on the two occasions I have sent questions to Parker (no acknowledgment ever received) I stressed that I was not accusing Miller of taking money for visits or tasting wine.<br /><br />Pancho's email of 4th June suggests that Miller may be involved in the payment. However, I do not consider Campo to be a credible witness. I have invited Miller to commment on this email and hope that he will take this opportunity to clarify the position.Jim's Loirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06696024920441263899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456611623448834500.post-51479192187121754902011-11-30T22:55:00.164+00:002011-11-30T22:55:00.164+00:00A question and a comment, if you please...
Questi...A question and a comment, if you please...<br /><br />Question (to Jim and others):<br />Has it been shown to your satisfaction that anyone at the Wine Advocate knew of this pay for play proposal? Campo seems to suggest as much when he talks of "usual fees" and Miller agreeing to stay for "half the usual price". I'm unsure, though, how reliable Campo's word might be, and this could be a case of someone mis-using an association with the WA for personal gain.<br /><br />Comment:<br />In my experience handlers are not uncommon. I live and work in a somewhat esoteric wine-growing region/country where fluency in English is not a given.<br />Over the years I have been approached by a number of foreign-based wine writers asking for advice: where to eat and stay in the area, how far is it from Region A to Region B by train, are the roads navigable by car if you can't read the road signs, what under-the-radar local producers would I recommend, etc. If time permits I often offer to set itineraries, do translation, and drive the visitor around. I ask only that the visiting writer cover my travel and lodging expenses.<br />Having talked with others in other countries, I know that my experiences are not unique.<br />While this method is not ideal--people like me act as an unintentional "filter" of info flowing from the producers to the writers--it is often the best way to get a lot of work done in a small amount of time. Of course, profiting from this association is another thing entirely.<br /><br /><br />Regards,Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456611623448834500.post-74432929753235235312011-11-30T21:24:52.903+00:002011-11-30T21:24:52.903+00:00wow - this cant be a parker Policy, hope its not l...wow - this cant be a parker Policy, hope its not like the News of the wrold phone bugging scandalMalescobloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03349535248278515903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456611623448834500.post-40859514153653067902011-11-30T21:13:49.510+00:002011-11-30T21:13:49.510+00:00Alas, this isn't even close to as bad as Barol...Alas, this isn't even close to as bad as BaroloFest. Admitted $50,000 in freebies solicited directly from individual wineries.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456611623448834500.post-65410533938301651942011-11-30T20:23:46.581+00:002011-11-30T20:23:46.581+00:00"Disturbing to hear abt scandal involving Wi..."Disturbing to hear abt scandal involving Wine Advocate critics being 'for sale'- going rate €40,000 to visit/taste wine"<br />Jeannie Cho Lee MW/TwitterVincent Poussonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13080212282701988499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456611623448834500.post-21504845534940183562011-11-30T18:28:40.059+00:002011-11-30T18:28:40.059+00:00@ CATO: Wow. Pretty broad and defamatory, no? C...@ CATO: Wow. Pretty broad and defamatory, no? Care to explain and enumerate?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com